I would say that most of your points are valid, except that this opinion is more pervasive in hockey than in other sports. Two examples pretty quickly come to mind. Soccer in europe (especially italy) is just as bad if not worse than hockey. I also seem to recall the Toronto Blue Jays “diverity” (all the players were american) not being respected when they won the world series.

How can this sentiment be considered irrelevant or non-existent when the man who IS hockey to a number of U.S. and Canadian citizens alike, is saying it?

It’s nowhere near a nationwide problem, and I’ve never seen it brought up specifically to the Wilson hiring (besides here, naturally). Canada wants to protect their own, as well as the sport they have made theirs. The problem is that they seem hesitant to let anyone else share in it, as well. How many times have you read articles from “journalists” who call for contraction in the NHL, and the removal of southern teams?

As crazy as it sounds, I actually find myself seeing some logic in Gary Bettman’s thinking. Hockey fans are hockey fans, plain and simple. I know this, having lived all my life in a state (New Jersey) that isn’t exactly a hockey hotbed. The people here are just as passionate as anywhere else.

I know no one is arguing that last point, but the fact that its even questioned is something to talk about. It’s a big pissing contest with no winners.

Sorry for the long post.

My last post was not intended to be a rant, just a perspective. Unfortunately, I’m long-winded, it may have come across wrong. I don’t want to generalize Canada as a whole as a bunch of America-hating snots. You have pride, which is what sports are all about. We all do; it’s the very essence of being a fan. I can assure you that if the NFL merged with the CFL, I’d be much more likely to root for one of our teams in a head to head matchup, for a subliminal fear that you might “take our sport away from us.” We all have this nationalism, we all have this fear. My only problem is public acknowledgment that you don’t want an American coaching a Canadian team. I just don’t feel that same type of, for lack of a better word, prejudice over here in THAT regard. I am sure that a vast majority of Canadians are like you, repenttokyo. A majority of you guys probably have a second-favorite team that is American, couldn’t care less if your coaches are American, and don’t consider hockey to be a border war. Like is the case with most things, sometimes the minority paints a bad picture of the majority, so I truly understand that point of view. Our super-sensitive media may be partially to blame.

To be fair, I will over-generalize Americans: we are uber-nationalistic, self-righteous, and pompous about nearly everything else.

I appreciate (i honestly say ‘thank you’) that most Canadian’s just love hockey and support their local teams (or non-local) and that’s pretty much as it should be.

I was just responding to one of those rare bigots that have far too loud a voice thanks to this inter-webs thing. Unfortunately my response may have just made his voice louder if this comment string and my blogs stats for today are any indication.

And Kevin, Barry had that Cup stolen from him by the Canadians. Everyone knows Kerry Frasier was a virulent nationalist. I have some materials in the trunk of my car you might be interested in…

Nice discussion, Paul. You’ve made some very valid points. Speaking as an African-American male, I can definitely relate to your point of view. On the whole, American sports have made an effort to, in to a great degree, remove race from consideration. Rarely will a major sport even acknowledge the race of a player (you don’t hear, “Kyle Korver is the first white forward since Larry Bird to make 100 3-pointers in a season” or “the Brewers have 4 black players and 5 white players on the field right now.” When race is discussed, it is communicated as a GOOD thing, and all diversity seems to be encouraged among players and coaches (celebration of Jackie Robinson, Tony Dungy, Tiger Woods, etc). Milestones are celebrated, and shortcomings are not highlighted. You will never hear, “Make sure you don’t draft any black hockey players, there’s never been a black player to win the Hart Trophy.” (Self-editorial note: Not that there are many black players entering the NHL draft, or who have ever played hockey in their lives for that matter, but that’s a different story.) The American media attempts, almost to an embarrassing degree at times, to make reparations for the rocky history between blacks and whites in the country by promoting “Diversity” like it’s the name of the new i-Phone competitor.

When it comes to most foreigners, we do not gush as much as we do about African-American accomplishments, but we do seem to accept them without reservation. In the NBA for example, Yao is highly touted, Dirk Nowitzki has won an MVP award, Hedo Turkoglu was voted this year’s Most Improved Player. Steve Nash (2 MVP’s), Tony Parker, and Tim Duncan are just considered some of the boys, regardless of where they hold citizenship. We may pigeonhole European players as strictly shooters, but that doesn’t stop every team from having at least one or two. European players are known to be changing the game, but there is no nationalistic movement going on to “save the NBA” from the evil Europeans. The same goes for baseball, where nearly 50% of the game’s biggest stars are neither white nor black, but rather of Hispanic origin (Pujols, Ortiz, Ramirez, Santana, Soriano, and Guerrero, to name a few). I know that Roberto Clemente opened the doors for these guys… and I may be too young to give a concrete verdict on this, but was there any outcry when “America’s game” turned into “Latin America’s game”? If so, I don’t recall hearing about it.

So this leads to this question: Why is hockey different? What entitles this sport to such overt nationalism, bordering on bigotry? To me, the answer lies in this simple statement: it’s not our sport. It’s Canada’s sport. They did it first, and historically, they did it best. The Canadiens, Maple Leafs and Oilers have more collective Stanley Cup championships than the rest of the NHL COMBINED. That’s enough to make a Canadian feel nationalistic, right? (Except for the fact that those three clubs hate each other, but that’s beside the point.) At long last, a reason for the great Canadians to look down upon the fat, greedy, self-righteous Americans!!! But then, things changed. In 1992-93, Barry Melrose won the Cup for the Canadiens. The next year, an American team won it. Then another. Then another. This year marked the 14th consecutive “official” year that an American team has won the Cup. Along the way, we even sprinkled in a few “warm weather” teams like Anaheim, Carolina, and Tampa Bay. Think that didn’t p*ss Canada off? Not only should those cities not have teams, but now they’re winning championships!?! Their one piece of leverage was gone. D*mn Americans!!!

Now don’t get me wrong; I realize that nearly all of these “American” championship teams were largely comprised of Canadian and Slavic-born players, but sometimes, it’s the principle.

With all its great players, why does the England’s national team hate Italia? Because Italy can beat them. Why does Argentina hate Brazil? Because they’re better. Nationalism becomes stronger when you’re on the short end of the stick. In international basketball, we couldn’t even name half the teams we played in 1992, because we won each game by 50. In 2004, we all know Italy and Argentina. Why? Because they beat us. So now we hate them. (Figuratively.)

Trust me, I’m not a Canada-basher, and this is not what I would consider a “nationalistic” post. Just my subjective opinion, based on some objective facts.

But for a Canadian, if an evil American–representing the country that has already taken “their” Cup, and who is starting to take over “their” sport, were to come over and become a coach of a pure, Canadian hockey team, it would be the ultimate slap in the face. Like if the coach of the Italian national basketball team were to come in and unseat Phil Jackson as coach of the Lakers.

Oh, and by the way, Melrose is now the coach of Tampa Bay Lightning. Take that, Canada!

(first, thanks for commenting)

As i said, i’m beginning to realize that. I still think this is more of an issue for hockey than for other sports, but that doesn’t mean it is about to bring the sport down. There are many other more pressing issues (like getting better TV exposure in the states and more revenue generating teams, be they in Canada or elsewhere).

I know this was a bit of me falling for troll bait, but i guess i read too many hockey blogs and not enough real ‘legit’ media coverage. I guess if my team got any legit media coverage, that would be easier to remedy, but the blogs and ‘buzz’ards dominate my feed reader right now, so its easy to get a skewed perspective.

I think it is still an issue, but not like its even 10% of the Canadian fan base, and nothing to get too bent out of shape over.

No one here in Toronto seems to give a flying flip where Wilson’s perceived to be from. Heck, the guy has a Canadian passport and was born in Windsor anyway.

Paul, no offence, but I think you’ve been reading comments from the troglodytes more than anything. No fans with half a brain, Canadian or otherwise, have anything against players like Nick Lidstrom. Mats Sundin and Tomas Kaberle are revered here, people in Vancouver love Markus Naslund and the same can be said for Daniel Alfredsson in Ottawa.

And how about all of those MVP chants for Alex Kovalev in Montreal, a city that has the most issues with this sort of thing?

A relative non-issue, really. If Tennessee had players coming from the region, they’d be favourites down there, too.

Hockey – which has been around for much longer than every sport bu baseball in North America – relied on a recruiting system not unlike college sports does today. As a result you ended up with a largely French Canadian Canadiens team, Largely US born Chicago team (relatively), etc. (see more info here).

This probably set the NHL up for a longer stretch of regional resistance to ‘outsiders’ and a feeling that the best coach from Toronto should coach Toronto, etc.

I don’t think this is anyone’s evil plot, just something the league needs to watch if it wants to grow in popularity (not just in the US).

I totally see where Canadian frustration comes from in regard to team placement and wanting expansion teams. They shouldn’t miss out on those last few tickets. They deserve to have more teams in Canada – i’ve been convinced of that.

(Of course there is an argument here that only NHL hockey could survive in the southern US but minor league hockey survives well in Canada so… but its a bad argument).

The issue i’m trying to focus on here isn’t so much the expansion to Canada argument, but the fact that those national pride sentiments seem to be boiling over into a nationalist/racist position that seems to resent anyone else that plays or enjoys the game.

The one that is the most striking to me was the Lidstrom situation. There were many many people (we heard them in Nashville when Timmonen was captain in 07-08) that said that Europeans don’t have what it takes to captain a team to the Cup, only North Americans. And comments like the one that started this discussion that Anerican Ron Wilson ( technically a Canadian born American citizen, by the way) shouldn’t coach the Maple Leafs based solely on his passport status.

I think Introverted One is right, this probably isn’t as prevalent as i am making it out to be, but it is more of a problem in hockey than most sports, and one that deeply offends me.

I thought we got over this kinda stuff decades ago.

It’s funny – when summer comes along, we read blog posts an articles about the other side of hockey…(btw, this is a long missive, so bear with me…)

To me, the issue stems from the aspect that the U.S. citizens, as a whole market, hasn’t grasped the beauty of the sport, so the Canadian’s passion about the sport they love comes out from a different angle. Even though we share the same continent, the culture is different. So, when the nationalism rings in Canada about their favorite sport, sometimes the passion goes overboard to smacks the U.S. fans in the face when they…share the same passion.

So, in other words, what brings us together as fans, drives us apart.

I think of it this way. It’s like a fan of a particular band that has been around forever . And then, that fan stands in line for his or her concert ticket (he or she spent the night outside the ticket window, tickets for past shows have sold out quickly, band doesn’t tour that often, and so on), only to have the concert sell out before that fan arrives at the ticket window, where the last two tickets purchased are ones that a couple bought because they heard one song on the radio and thought it was cool, and that fan has the band’s entire discography . Some would feel a sense of loss, a sense of entitlement, where the common thread is the same, they like that musical group.

I think it’s the same way in this debate but it’s not limited to just Canada vs. U.S., but original six fans vs. fans of expansion teams, vs. fans of the second expansion, vs. fans of the southern expansion, fans of the Red Wings vs. everyone else (had to throw that in there [grin]); the issues of “we were fans first, recognize our heritage” sometimes come out, and personally I always try to understand where they are coming from. However, the frustation is that new fans aren’t recognized as quickly and they’re tagged as johnny-come-latelys that just.don’t.get.it.

Though, I don’t think it’s racist or bigoted. It’s more of a cultural difference and a pride issue – which I get and which I get frustrated by at the same time. It doesn’t mean though that if James Mirtle, or the other Canadian bloggers want to venture down to Phoenix that I wouldn’t want to hang out with them and talk hockey, because I would most assuredly would. They have liked and played this sport far longer than me and I can still learn a great deal from them.

Conversations like these, as long as they are reasoned, are important and good – especially in the off-season when we want hockey to come back right.now.

FWIW

Guy had a point re: country music’s issues with “outsiders.” I see parallels b/t hockey & cm fans views of nonfans/newbies

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